How do I discover my mental game weakness?

[jack]

Jared, I have your book and am enjoying it, but I am still a little unsure on how to discover my mental game weakness. Maybe I dont realize when i go on tilt? I do now that I ususally start out playing tight and then end up donking chips. How do I stop playing any two cards when a loos aggressive player sits down? I am a loosing player and need help to turn my game around.

[Jared Tendler]

Hi Jack,

I can help you a bit here. The first thing is that you started to answer your own question. As you wrote out the problem, you indicated two things: You donk off chips, and you play any two against an aggro player. That's a good start. I'd encourage you to be taking notes about your game and all the poker and mental mistakes that you make for a couple weeks. You can also fill out this questionnaire, which can help you to further assess your game and identify mistakes. Then once you have an idea of what your mistakes are the biggest priority: See number 3 on page 12. Then, it's time to start breaking them down.

So for example, why do you end up donking chips off? Why do you become over aggressive, against an aggessive player. Those answers define where you want to look in the book for answers. If you'd like some feedback, post some comments, and I'll help out.

Best,
Jared

[jack]

Jared, thanks for comments, I only play live now so I guess i woull have to take notes whn I get home, I am reading your book it is very good just a lot of info to try and remember guess it will taek a while to get it into my unconscience competance. Not sure why I loosen up its either 1) i get bored 2) have a lack of discipline 3) Just want to gamble blpppppp (bad idea) 4)dont' want to be seen as an abc player i want the image of (he could have anything) maybe wrong image to want, not sure? 5) sometimes afraid I will be folding best hand if I fold say 8 10 off and the flop comes A 8 10 or 8 10 8 or 10 10 2 or any such flop Ill kick myself. I wanna be a good player and i think to be so I need to be willing to play pots with weak hands. 6) a lot of the time I will call preflop raises with 8 9 suited or 5 6 suited thinking I have two live cards they are raiseing with AK or AQ etc. 7) many times I get on autopilot and call with any two suited cards and I dont know why I just call I get to where I wanna play every hand. Sometimes after bad beats I get aggresive due to bad being pissed off. I have read in your book about mistake tilt and I have it along with many other tilts revenge, i hate u tilt, im gonna bust u tilt I know u keep raising u cant always have a good hand dont push me around tilt. Sometimes I wanna show ill put it all out there with nothin, I got Balls, macho tilt ill gamble im not a wimp, sometimes for shock value at table people say " ur crazy" all self centered mostly tilt more concerned about my image than my pocket book. sometimes I dont care about image i care about pocket book and sometimes i feel im playing too tight. I have all these problems and I dont know how to fix them or correct them at table . I fell like ive been playuing for years how am I still loosing why am i not now making money am I that bad as a player do I need to quit sounds like mistake tilt according to ur book. I really feel like I should be better now and be profiting from poker iv read countless books learned the math try hard to play good but I dont please help me if you can thanks.

[Jared Tendler]

Jared, thanks for comments, I only play live now so I guess i woull have to take notes whn I get home, I am reading your book it is very good just a lot of info to try and remember guess it will taek a while to get it into my unconscience competance. Not sure why I loosen up its either 1) i get bored 2) have a lack of discipline 3) Just want to gamble blpppppp (bad idea) 4)dont' want to be seen as an abc player i want the image of (he could have anything) maybe wrong image to want, not sure? 5) sometimes afraid I will be folding best hand if I fold say 8 10 off and the flop comes A 8 10 or 8 10 8 or 10 10 2 or any such flop Ill kick myself. I wanna be a good player and i think to be so I need to be willing to play pots with weak hands. 6) a lot of the time I will call preflop raises with 8 9 suited or 5 6 suited thinking I have two live cards they are raiseing with AK or AQ etc. 7) many times I get on autopilot and call with any two suited cards and I dont know why I just call I get to where I wanna play every hand. Sometimes after bad beats I get aggresive due to bad being pissed off. I have read in your book about mistake tilt and I have it along with many other tilts revenge, i hate u tilt, im gonna bust u tilt I know u keep raising u cant always have a good hand dont push me around tilt. Sometimes I wanna show ill put it all out there with nothin, I got Balls, macho tilt ill gamble im not a wimp, sometimes for shock value at table people say " ur crazy" all self centered mostly tilt more concerned about my image than my pocket book. sometimes I dont care about image i care about pocket book and sometimes i feel im playing too tight. I have all these problems and I dont know how to fix them or correct them at table . I fell like ive been playuing for years how am I still loosing why am i not now making money am I that bad as a player do I need to quit sounds like mistake tilt according to ur book. I really feel like I should be better now and be profiting from poker iv read countless books learned the math try hard to play good but I dont please help me if you can thanks.

Hey Jack,

First off, the mental game's value really lies in being able to help you use the knowledge you've learned. And right now the issues are a bit of a jumbled mess in your mind. That's fine, because already they're starting to get teased out. Meaning compared first post to second post. It's a mile different in terms of specifics. All these specifics are a bit overwhelming, because as you said, you're unsure where to start, but that's fine. To really know where to start means that you have an idea of what they heck you're looking at and 2 weeks ago you had very little. Which means, what you need right now is to continue to study and assess your mental game issues first and foremost. After every session you play, keep taking notes and being specific about actual thoughts associated with each on of the 7 issues you mentioned so far. Awareness alone may improve them, but at a minimum, if you want to fix these long-term, you have to invest a bit of time in the short-term to really understand them.

That said, I can see some patterns here and can help clear things up so you can make improvements, while you're making progress.

Mistake Tilt is part of this, but when were looking at solving these problems long-term, we have to go right to the biggest issue, and that's confidence. When you're saying - you want to show you have balls, show your macho, show you're not going to get pushed around, that you'll kick yourself over mistakes, etc - all these roads lead to an underlying confidence issue. The whole book is actually organized around this, because for many many players, what underlies, tilt, fear, and motivation issues is confidence. Now, what I'd suggest doing is reading through Mistake Tilt, Revenge Tilt, Fear of Failure (I suspect there are issues of perfectionism in here too) and the confidence section. See what hits home.

Then using the strategy laid out in chapter 4, find an logic statement or two, that can keep you focused on solid play throughout your session. It's going to take some mental will/effort to fight against these old habits. The more knowledge you have about them, and the correction to them, the easier this battle will get over time.

Keep in mind too - sometimes the desire to be a winning player is so strong, that it overwhelms the process of becoming one.

If you want some help breaking down a specific issue (as an example) post more details on it and I'll show you how.

[jack]

Jared thank you so much your book has helped a lot as well but in this chat you have pointed out some areas I was not aware of. I knew i had problems with mistake tilt and revenge tilt but was not aware so much of the confidence issue I will look more at that issue. Also can there be another tilt like atc tilt any two cards tilt similar to autopilot. It does help to document and write I was not aware of how theraputical it is to write down thoughts it does clear my head and in writing I discovered that sometimes I just call with atc any two cards. Again thanks so much for your help I will look further at chapter 4 and at confidence issues. I love your book thanks

[jack]

I think I posted my last comment too quickly, when I say atc tilt I am refering to when I am enjoying playing so much that I will call with any two cards just to play. Im a joker and like to have fun and sometimes Ill call a friend or someone I know with atc just to try to beat them with rags. Usually this is due to just wanting to gamble or due to just wanting to play and have fun and sometimes I think if i fold here and flop two pair or trips ill kick myself I guess this really is mistake tilt. thanks again jared

[Jared Tendler]

Your very welcome Jack, I'm really happy to hear the combo of the thread, and book are helping a lot. It is amazing how helpful writing can be, people don't believe me until they try it themselves

One thing to keep in mind regarding playing atc against your friends...it's ok to have fun and enjoy yourself. I think the difference just has to be about frequency, and what your goals are. If your there to have fun, it's ok to open up a few more hands and gamble a bit - it's fun. If you're there to play your best, then it's not. Deciding ahead of time will help to keep this clear.

[fup]

5) sometimes afraid I will be folding best hand if I fold say 8 10 off and the flop comes A 8 10 or 8 10 8 or 10 10 2 or any such flop Ill kick myself. I wanna be a good player and i think to be so I need to be willing to play pots with weak hands.

This makes me think you are results oriented. You say you know the math, what are the chances of flopping 2 pair/trips with atc?

When you fold 10 8o to a raise pf and the flop comes 10 8 x you need to remind yourself you made the CORRECT play, not kick yourself otherwise it is going to fuel your tilt spiral.

[jack]

jared is this still a good thread to ask you about why i play loose when I have more buyins in my pocket?
sometimes i will make gambling calls becasue I think i got more money I can rebuy how do I overcome this mental flaw?

[Jared Tendler]

Sure Jack, we can keep the conversation rolling here.

First off, how are you doing with the other issues we've addressed?

To this problem, it sounds like there are some holes in your understanding of variance and the nature of poker. A bankroll is what protects you from short-term fluctuation in the game that you can't control. Blowing through that bankroll when you have the opportunity, says that you're losing control because you're getting caught up in the emotion of the moment - perhaps to want to win right now. Or to not walk away down money. Either way, that's ignoring the realities of poker, and you're avoiding developing an important skill: How to handle losses. Losing has to happen in poker. It's an important skill to have.

What do you think?

[jack]

yes fup ur right I now that flopping 2 pair or trips is a long shot against a pair im only 16% against 2 over cards im 35%either way im not in good shape preflop, you make a good point I could be doing this as a results oriented way of thinking, I ususally view suited connecters in the light of having 2 live cards depending on who is doing the raising is this mental weakness to think like this? I dont know I will listen to what anyone who reads this has to say. thanks

[jack]

Jared, sounds like solid advice and ur are right I do not like to leave down, what is a good time to just get up and leave if I take some bad beats? i do deal with injustice tilt and I never know when the cards will turn around for me. I have been playing good and running bad lately, I have been working on my game and have thougt seriously about stepping away from the game because I seem to be so far down and cannot turn things around. Should i take some time off or play thru? kinda confused about it right now. I do know that bad beats will happen its part of the game but they do suck when they continue to keep coming. Guess i have accumulated emotions u were talking about in ur book. I am bust right now and have to make some money before I can return to tables. Im sure that my losing is due to a mix af bad play and bad beats but am I really supposed to be having loosing sessions about 90% of the time? I have been playing for 4 years and have yeet to show a profit, is this right?