50nl trying to hand read here

[longclaw]

This was early in the session but I have about 100 hands with the villain in the past. I have him running 23/18/5 with a 6% 3bet.

PokerStars, $0.25/0.50 NO Limit Texas Holdem Cash Games, 6 Players
DragTheBar Hand Convertor

Board:
BB: $53.10
UTG: $31.35
UTG+1: $50
CO: $56.75
Button: $108.90
SB: $19.25

Dealt to CO 5 A

Pre-flop:
(2 folds), CO raises to $1.50, Button calls $1.50, (2 folds)

Flop: ($3.75) 6 J 4 (2 Players)
CO bets $2, Button raises to $6, CO raises to $15,

Preflop when he calls I put him on a pretty wide speculative range, mainly connectors, suited gappers, and that kind of stuff. I don't think he has anything too strong here because he doesn't 3bet me.

On the flop I make a small cbet because the board is so dry. When the villain raises me I am thinking he thinks I missed this board and he is trying to steal this pot. I think he would flat here with most of his Jacks (QJ, JT, J9 etc.) and his mid-pocket pairs. I don't think he is repping much here with his raise, really just sets or a slowplayed overpair. I know if I 3 bet I am repping a very narrow range also but I really don't think he can bluff shove here either. I go ahead and put in the 3bet bluff.


Am I starting to think the right way here and get into these leveling wars correctly?

[QTip]

Yeah, I think your thoughts are really solid here. There are very few hands that want to raise here and even those hands slowplay some % of the time.

Now, get in your own head here and think about what types of boards you want to bluff raise as the villain IP.

[DoItFoDaKids]

Yeah, I think your thoughts are really solid here. There are very few hands that want to raise here and even those hands slowplay some % of the time.

I echo this.

Your thoughts are spot on except that you seem to think your only options are raise/fold to him here. You can also call. Most likely, if I thought he was full of it on the flop, I'd float his raise w/ intentions of making a play on the turn or river. This is likely what I'd do w/ JQ-J9 or other type hands that I wouldn't fold to his raise, but wouldn't be comfortable 3b/getting it in with. As you even said, you're repping a very narrow range by re-raising him here on such a dry board. However, when you just call flop and check turn to him, you're repping the vast majority of a legitimate range. If I had AA (or hand of similar strength) and he did this I'd likely opt to allow him to continue the aggression and c/r the turn after he's put another bet in. His line doesn't make much sense, but when you 3b the flop yours doesn't either.

That said, you have to pay close attention to what line he takes on various turns and rivers and perhaps more importantly how the board texture changes as to whether or not it will become a good spot to go ahead w/ the plan of making a move to take it away.

[longclaw]

Yeah, I think your thoughts are really solid here. There are very few hands that want to raise here and even those hands slowplay some % of the time.

Now, get in your own head here and think about what types of boards you want to bluff raise as the villain IP.

OK, first off I think an Ace high board would be better. I would still cbet it with my hands that missed like suited connectors and broadways which are a bigger part of my range than my big Aces here. I would also have to give him more credit for having an Ax suited type of hand that may have flopped two pair. Not many people are going to play J6s or J4s but they will play A6s and A4s all day. In this case if the Ace flopped and he had raised me I wouldn't really know where I was at and I would probably have to give it up.

The other kind of board I would have trouble continuing on would be the middle connected boards. Flops like 679, 289, 5TJ hit his calling range a lot harder than the J64 of the original hand. I probably would even cbet on a 679 board here unless I had an overpair I was ready to go with because it is so easy for him to have a pair+draw type hand that he can raise-shove profitably.

Other than that I am not too sure, perhaps a monotone flop would be good?

[longclaw]

I echo this.

Your thoughts are spot on except that you seem to think your only options are raise/fold to him here. You can also call. Most likely, if I thought he was full of it on the flop, I'd float his raise w/ intentions of making a play on the turn or river. This is likely what I'd do w/ JQ-J9 or other type hands that I wouldn't fold to his raise, but wouldn't be comfortable 3b/getting it in with. As you even said, you're repping a very narrow range by re-raising him here on such a dry board. However, when you just call flop and check turn to him, you're repping the vast majority of a legitimate range. If I had AA (or hand of similar strength) and he did this I'd likely opt to allow him to continue the aggression and c/r the turn after he's put another bet in. His line doesn't make much sense, but when you 3b the flop yours doesn't either.

That said, you have to pay close attention to what line he takes on various turns and rivers and perhaps more importantly how the board texture changes as to whether or not it will become a good spot to go ahead w/ the plan of making a move to take it away.

Thanks, I will have to try that in the future, but right now I gotta walk before I can run. I don't know if I am ready to check-raise bluff my stack on the turn here. I decided continued aggression would be the easiest course.

On a side note, if you flat call his raise here and then he checks back a blank turn, what would you do on the river if an overcard rolls off? What would you do if a blank hits?

[snipthetip]

I think with your read of the situation, I think you played it fine. Most 50NL regs are not going to play back at you with a bluff here, so nicely done. Even if he is aware of yeti, like I said, 50NL regs find it hard to play back without the goods. DaKids brings up a good point about flatting the raise and then making a play on the turn/river. As you move up, you'll need to be taking this kind of line more as it is what you would do with your value hands. As for your question, if the turn checked through, I would fire the river if an overcard or a blank hit I think.

[UmmTasty]

One thing to mention is that you picked the perfect type of opponent for this play, which is a TAG reg who is also trying to hand read so bravo.

I don't think that floating OOP is something I recommend when his range is either air or monsters. Very few players are going to be able to re-ship over you with air here. However, if the board were different and he could also have draws in his range I like floating and then ck-shoving when the draw misses on the turn. This is better imo because a lot of players will re-bluff if they know they have outs and by ck-shoving the turn you don't give him that chance and you have more fold equity because he only has 1 card to hit his outs.

[coolermaster]

I doubt he knows of yeti theorem, so I like your play. Most people at 50NL will not play back at you in this spot unless they have the goods in this spot(most likely 44 or 66)

[QTip]

I've never heard of a "yeti theorem".

[UmmTasty]

I've never heard of a "yeti theorem".

The third raise is usually a bluff = yeti theorem. Usually refers to coming over the top of a check raise though.

[Hunter Bick]

OP I like your play, very few legit hands raise that board.

Owen, Yeti is an old school 2+2er who coined that theorem, here it is in action with me using it to level a tag.

PokerStars $3.00/6.00 No Limit Hold'em Cash Games, 4 Players
DragTheBar Hand Convertor

Board:
dac11 (BB): $683
BeachJustice (CO): $600
justforfunds (Button): $887
open.french (UTG): $611.90

Dealt to BeachJustice 5 6

Pre-flop:
BeachJustice raises to $18, (2 folds), dac11 calls $12

Flop: ($39) 5 6 4 (2 Players)
dac11 checks, BeachJustice bets $30, dac11 raises to $78, BeachJustice raises to $174, dac11 raises to $587, BeachJustice calls $378

Turn: ($1,256) 7 (2 Players)

River: ($1,256) 2 (2 Players)

Results:
dac11 wins $83
dac11 Showed T Q
BeachJustice Showed 5 6
BeachJustice wins $1,201

[hockeyav]

Hey Hunter BBV is that way ->

=P


But either way, I do like the line a lot, especially because most 50nl regs don't understand the right boards to be raising, so he's repping a super narrow range and you'll be able to take the pot down fairly often.