folding KK preflop - early to mid blind

[lateshift]

No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

MP1 (t1470)
Hero (MP2) (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t840)
Button (t1425)
SB (t2490)
BB (t1275)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)

Hero's M: 25.00

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t40, 1 fold, Hero bets t160, 3 folds, SB raises t540, BB raises t920 - leaving 315 behind

this hand illustrates a situation i've been thinking about which boils down to the following - at low limit sng's (6:50 in this case) ... any preflop non all in 4 bet is always AA ...
in this hand for example when the bb 4 bets to 960 leaving 315 behind he is 100% pot commited and also can't have any expectaion that the bb will fold. he is clearly screaming "i want action." yes people do all kinds of crazy things in these games but the hyper aggresive player who decides to 4bet with JTs or a weak ace or whatever random hand you like is just going to 4 bet shove.

all of this may seem obvious but if so, would you be willing to fold KK in hero's spot? or, to put it another way, how often would you have to be right to make folding KK in hero's position correct? granted, this situation doesn't happen very often but i've been looking for an instance in my hand histories where a non all in 4bet pf shove was not AA and havn't found one.

anybody?

[updante58]

I would say it's a coin toss that you're up against AA. As mentioned, the 4-bet does look like he wants action, although I have seen many players decide that it is a good I idea to leave a few hundred chips behind just in case they lose. I see fish over play 99 or AJ in this manner all the time. We also have to consider the chance that the 3-bettor is the one holding aces. The shear odds against somebody having aces over your kings balances out the odds imo.

The reason I would lean to a fold is because even if you call or shove, and there's a good chance that the SB will follow in you will often end up in a coin flip post-flop too. If one player has Ax and the other has a PP you are only at about 50-55% equity. And if you happen to get called by two lower PP's you are still only slightly better than 3 to 2.

Luckily you only put in 160 chips so far. You can still fold without taking a big hit. While tripling up would provide a ton of equity, you will also gain equity when you get out of the way and allow one of the other stacks to get taken out or crippled.

imo, I think you can find better +ev spots later down the line. You may not triple up, but there will be much safer spots to get your money and with better reads.

[Punky159]

I'm not folding KK without solid evidence that I'm up against an absolute rock that will only play AA this way. Odds are you could be up against AA, AK, KK, or other pockets. I think risk versus reward is great here and i would.go for it, but that's me.

[alexuuus]

had the exact situation a few days ago and had KK and shipped and he showed me TT and he hasnt done any spewy-stuff till that point...

just dont fold KK

[zerosum79]

When you hold KK you are worried about 6 combos of AA, but there are also 2 combos of KK you split, 6 combos of QQ and possibly 6 combos of JJ, along with 6 combos of AK.

You are far enough ahead of even the tightest persons range that this is almost never a fold.

zero

[lateshift]

i did in fact shove with the k's - even as i was telling myself "i know he has AA" which he in fact did. even so, i'll probably call with them next time too - at least against an unknown. maybe he'll surprise me with qq or worse.

thanks for the responses