Semantics Regarding Belief in God
I've been struggling to come up with good lines on different terms regarding an individual's persuasions regarding the existence of a god(s). The popular notion seems to have an agnostic sitting between an atheist and a theist and/or deist (for simplicity I'll lump theists and deists together in this discussion). Let's start with some definitions from the dictionary.
Theist: one who believes in the existence of a god or gods.
Atheist: one who does not believe in the existence of God or gods.
In a strict sense, there is no middle ground here. You either believe or you don't. You are in belief or unbelief. If someone should say "I'm not sure", they simply do not believe. So, what's this idea of an agnostic being in the middle of the two? If an atheist does not believe in god and neither does an agnostic, what would be the difference between the two?
Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God .
It's the second part of that definition that throws confusion into the mix since, as we have seen, you cannot hold both sides of the fence. There's an interesting connotational impact of placing the terms agnostic between the other two terms. It tends to throw a very close-minded light on atheism as if atheists are saying they are certain there is no god. However, we'll see this is certainly not the case. In my exposure to atheists, I've yet to meet one with that firm conviction. When given a scale from 1 to 7 with 1 meaning "no god" and 7 meaning "a god", every atheist I've questioned has immediately given a 2. We could determine that these individuals are mislabeling themselves; however, if a person doesn't believe in a god, it seems to me they fit the definition of an atheist perfectly. I'm persuaded things are much clearer if we do not use term agnostic to describe a person's belief or absence of a belief in god.
The terms agnosticism (not the concept however) was coined in 1869 by Thomas Henry Huxley. And to quote wikipedia:
"Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief."
Or as Thomas Huxley put it:
"Agnosticism is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the vigorous application of a single principle... Positively the principle may be expressed as in matters of intellect, do not pretend conclusions are certain that are not demonstrated or demonstrable."
So, it keeps things very tidy when we keep to the first definition of agnosticism which describes a person who believes that nothing can be known in terms of the truth of the existence of god. Notice that has nothing to do with the actual belief or unbelief in god. Many people hold an agnostic position on this topic because of the non-natural nature of the topic. Given what we have available at this point in history, it's difficult or perhaps impossible to test and/or observe a deity. While someone may hold that persuasion, they still would necessarily fit into one of the categories of atheist or theist. They may believe there is as god, but admit they cannot know for certain. A good term for such a person could be an agnostic theist. On the other side, a person may not believe in a god, but admit they admit they cannot know for certain. A good term for such a person could an agnostic atheist.
There could certainly be differing levels of an agnostic theist and an agnostic atheist. While they are stating they cannot reach 100% certainty, they may fall anywhere between 51% to 99% certain with their belief or unbelief. Perhaps we might call the difference a weak or strong agnostic atheist/theist. A person claiming to know on either side might be called a dogmatic atheist/theist. Given the nature of the topic, it's easy to see why many people may consider it unreasonable to be at either extreme.
So, notice that since both agnostics and atheists are in unbelief, the term atheist seems to have been reserved for the dogmatic atheist given the connotation of unreasonableness and close-mindedness. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a term assigned to an agnostic theist. Perhaps this is because those who are most interested in assigning labels sense on some level that agnostic theism doesn't fit well with a religion that both demands a belief and commissions its adherents to persuade others of its truthfulness.
But, I doubt this clarity will ever find its way to refining the question "Do you believe in god or are you an atheist or an agnostic?"





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October 19th, 2010 - 20:42
I like the idea of having “agnostic atheists” or “agnostic theists” instead of simply using the term “agnostic”. Probably most agnostics are not true “agnostics”. They slant towards one way or the other. It is my opinion that an atheist can accept the possibility of a God more than a fundamentalist believer can. To come to a position in atheism you have to get there by thinking, and many believers got to their belief by not thinking. Also believers have not come to grips with the possibility of annhilation, where atheists have to some degree.
October 20th, 2010 - 08:23
I don’t really like athiest, agnostic, gnostic or theist definitions because they can be so confusing. Richard Dawkin’s has put together a neat little 7 point belief scale that i like better in his book, “The God Delusion.”
1.Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
2.De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
3.Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
4.Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
5.Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
6.De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
7.Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
Notice that if you are even if you believe the odds of god’s existence are 1 in 649740–you are still a De-facto Atheist. It seems that very few reasonable people conclude there is no god with 100% certainty. Dawkin’s, for example, places himself in category 6 and if athiesm had a pope. . .it would be Richard Dawkins.
There is another subset of atheists as well, Anti-theists. These people are in active opposition to theism. This viewpoint ascerts the belief that there is no god and religion is bad for you. Religion was bad for the hijackers on 9/11, the people into the prosperity gospel, forcing ID psedo-science in our public school systems, abstinence only programs, eliminating Thomas Jefferson from social studies books, the dont ask dont tell policy of the US military,The global Catholic priest rape cover up , JW death before blood transfusion (they’ve also had some rape cover-up issues), theist crime and divorce statistics compared to athiests, The draw Muhamed Day cartoonist had to go into hiding, making people geel guilty for being human, shunning, protesting military funerals because god hates “figs”, telling children they will go to hell if they are not gullible, and excluding a whole group of people from saying they are married because of who they are.
October 20th, 2010 - 14:38
Yeah, I’ve read that book from Dawkins, and I also liked his 7 point breakdown. I also like his thoughts about temporary agnostic in practice compared to permanent agnostic in principle.
February 25th, 2011 - 03:21
I enjoyed the posts and comments.
Something that I find fascinating is very bright “young earth” Christians. A person I used to work with was probably the best, most creative, analog designer I’ve come to know, and he was a young-earth Christian. The same person who understood quantum mechanics and relativity (and accepted them as fact) believed the earth was a few thousand years old?? I’m guessing this guy had an IQ of 170 or above. It was fun to talk to him because he could talk about non-Christian subjects in depth. And, unless you carefully observed, you wouldn’t have guessed he was Christian.
Then I have seen the Atheists who are as “religious” as some Evangelicals. It is like Atheism is their religion and they are very dogmatic and obnoxious about it. Even though I might agree with their arguments they are not very much fun to hang around with.